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Skippy Dies

August 9, 2011 in Wordsmoker Book Club

Welcome to Book Fight Club. In which we discuss Skippy Dies by Paul Murray. Sadly, Skippy dies.


This is a video of the only Murray I know. Please watch while we wait for the others to arrive.


Here’s a Best of Murray:

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1S5FJQ6K5c&feature=related

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    O! That’s good.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    It’s like Lassie, but with kangaroos.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    It’s where book Skippy got his nickname!

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    skippy

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Who all read the book? I thought there were lots of us this time around.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I like how there’s quotes around “elegant”, because really it’s a hobo bar.

    Well, it’s just nine o’clock now. The fucking fucks.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Dennis is the only character with his shit together.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Senor Wences wrote:

    I like how there’s quotes around “elegant”, because really it’s a hobo bar.

    Only “real people” eat it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    It’s been nearly a year since I read it, so my thoughts will be hazy and lack hard facts. Dennis is the dorky science kid?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    What? A year? Shit. I read it two weeks ago and I’m hazy. Dennis is the one who says there’s something wrong with Skippy dating Lori, and that Ruprecht’s story of his parents seems like bullshit and his inventions are crap and so on.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I’m in the middle of moving and I keep trying to turn on the lamp to my right which isn’t there any more.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I don’t think I’ve enjoyed anything as much as this that I’ve read since, by the by. Had a coupla issues with it, here and there, but all in all, it’s my favorite novel in quite some time. Occasionally got a little cardboard, but some lovely stretches that went for pages on end.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    So what did you like about the novel, Wences? It made me think of you. Of you laughing at some certain part or phrase.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, right, okay…Dennis is sort of a tertiary dude, yeah? Ruprecht is dorky science kid.

    Hahaha, one ends up kind of hoping a Ruprecht invention will somehow change reality or bring Skippy back from the dead, doesn’t one?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I thought, for one thing, it was great in displaying kids that age, without dumbing them down or oversmartening them up. Their deft usages of the word “gay” were stellar.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I was worried about the novel at first. Hopeland, Book I, was very surface, very plot and I thought, This is never going to get any depth, is it? But it did! And I liked it quite a bit. It was always very entertaining. The writing style is very effortless and fun.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I liked that it was haunted in the background by Catholicism, particularly in an Irish boarding school, without going overboard and having it be ALL about that, yet the current is throughout, and IS on some levels ALL about that, much like Catholics I’ve known, who it’s just part of their being, whether they buy into any of it whatsoever or not.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    What’s her name, the lady teacher, was an evil twat.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I loved Mario. Mr sex man.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    To this day I still think about the school dance descent into a hellscape, which stuck out a little sore thumbish, but was still awesome. It reminded me of when T.C. Boyle will throw in a stretch of fun that stands on its own, but still wraps into the overall book just fine.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Lady teacher seemed a touch like a male writer’s wishful thinking. She was pretty dang flat.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I wanted to slap Howard around. A lot. And not in any sort of sexy way.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    You ever read whichever Boyle that is with the jungle exploring? Fucking fantastic bit in the middle, visiting some tribal kingdom, that basically just rewrites Dorothy & friendz initial arrival at Oz, only boogedy jungle kingdom, and it was only after reading through it I went, “Hey! Wait a minute! This is fucking Oz!” School dance was like that for me.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    I liked it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Howard’s the teacher, yeah? Haha, he was such a doofus. Though he made some good observations. His bit about the sort of American his wife is was good…something about her notion of what an Irish husband would be like, and him knowing he was no such thing, and the marriage doomed.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    Dennis only has it together because he trusts nothing. I liked the little dude who was Skippy’s rock . . . The one who kept encouraging him.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I didn’t buy lady teacher would bang him, except lately I wonder if they drank the punch, too, and realize they maybe musta. They did drink Schnapps or something godawful, didn’t they?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I thought the surprise of the book/plot twist was indeed a surprise and very sad. I re-read the beginning scene which is very sad when it is read in full knowledge.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    You mean the “prop me up on the desk and fuck me around the world” geography teacher, Miss MacIntyre – right Vaq?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Which one was Skippy’s rock? What else did he do in there?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Wait, what was the surprise twist?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Helman: Ruprecht. He was Skippy’s pal. Or maybe it was the other way around.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    I hated all of the teachers and, needless to say, I wanted to murder Carl. What was the angle there, anyway? Psychotic little rich kid? (In hindsight, we were probably meant to think he was growing a case of schitzophrenia (ph) I suppose. What with the voices.)

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Yes, what WAS the surprise twist?

    Let’s talk about CARL.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Carl was not well.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Yes, Rosie. Yeesh. Although I liked when in her lesson on lava and such, as she held the globe, it was like a fat spoiled house cat. But that’s the only thing I like about her — how she holds a globe.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    But Carl sure does become a hand of god there, in the fire. Carl was occasionally almost sympathetic. Awful, awful dude, but there were still glimmers of scared little kid in there.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    The surprise was what happened to Skippy. That was a surprise to me.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Or have I got the wrong bad kid?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    No, Rosie, not Ruprecht. The other boy, who kept encouraging the romance. DON’T MAKE ME FIND MY KINDLE!

    Also, the fact that the pedophile priest was the only one to stand up to Tom’s crime annoyed me. Not that it wouldn’t happen. Just that — as with much of this book — the plot annoyed me.

    The dialog among the boys was lovely, if a bit maturely arch.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh! Yes, I thought the foolish and naive use of pills was also very true to These Kids Today.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    The teacher thing was brilliant. Looked like high school. One could totally see the whole teacher lounge scene – brilliant. I liked the way the “Howard the Coward” story unraveled and how the hero who he wrecked was the one that was guilty of such sin. It was all so incestuous. Every bit. Even down to Carl, Lori and Skippy. The video. The lust. The hate.

    Crimes of passion, throughout.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Hey! I forgot and then just remembered about BFC!

    So anyway, Skippy dies. Huh.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I hated being a teenager.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I didn’t want the pedophile priest to turn out to be a pedophile and then he did in nearly the worst way possible, if there’s a worst way, just total betrayal of what his good works or whatever were supposed to accomplish, and his justifications and evasions and guilt and racism and bla bla bla, they were pretty richly realized, I thought.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    SW: No, that’s Carl, and I agree. It reminded me of that British show Skins, as facile as that comparison seems. It has an antihero character who is very like Carl – repellent yet sympathetic. Carl becomes more irredeemable (especially after the cell phone thing), but I never felt like he became unknowably evil.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    That Carl wept when the bad guys were going to hang his friend? Eh. He was a fucking bully.

    I liked the scenes with Ruprecht and the girl.

    Poor Skippy. The weight of the world was on his shoulders. The book was good at showing that, without belaboring it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I liked how the gaming world was integrated into the real world as if they were equals. That they feed into each other.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    It kept almost being some cliche of an Irish Catholic boarding school, yet always pulled up and veered instead of settling into bullshit. That was really skillful, I thought.

    Also, I’m really glad it didn’t do some clodhopper Mark Twain vernacular accent thing ever. It so coulda.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    I liked the way Howard’s “cowardice” worked, but I didn’t like how the Coach twist worked. Like, I liked the idea (the pedo priest is not the culprit, etc.), but I wanted there to be more of an interior for Coach. It felt asymmetrical.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Poor girlfriend girl. I got sad for her. She wanted to be more than shallow.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    HG: Who were the boys?
    Dennis: The doubting Thomas
    Ruprecht: Boy genius destined for Stamford
    Mario: Italian god lover of all things with curves

    The one who played the instrument in the band? The second in school to Ruprecht? What was his name???

    The pill thing was indeed on point.

    As much as I disliked Carl, I really liked him.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    I thought the head guy villain was too cartoonish, though. He was almost too broad to be as funny as he was supposed to be (or as villainous).

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    BRB: Yeah, some characters had way more meat on them, and some were way more wispy than the story was warranting for ‘em.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    It was Carl’s buddy I ended up really hating.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Poor Lori. I felt like she was in a Twin Peaks episode.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    Vaq, I actually didn’t like that so much. ANd I could have done without the frolic around Ruprecht’s magic device.

    Mario was a riot, but he was a caricature, right?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Some of the Howard the Coward stuff, I dunno, I also felt like, “Get over it, dude. Shut up.” Being grown is also partly quitting giving a rat’s ass about youthful humiliations, just happens. Though, yeah, in such a closed society like this is set in, maybe not. Dunno.

    Everybody all haunted by some incident or another, and watching these kids get their own scars for later. Okay, yeah, I guess I get it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Carl’s buddy – Barry.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    You know who cracks me up a lot in retrospect? Doughnut shop manager guy. All mad at these damn kids, just trying to run his damn shop.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/helmangiraffe/ helmangiraffe

    Wences: I HATED when it dawned on me that, yes, Lori had gone along with the ruse to use Skippy as an excuse to see Karl.

    Also, her anorexia seemed silly. Too easy: Lori, thin; Ruprecht fat. Too facile.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    BRB: Head villian? Like the drug lord guy?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    The doughnuts were described well. They sounded tasty.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I liked the pictures in my mind of the scene with the paper airplanes on fire coming from the rooftop.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Yeah, I didn’t make much of the fat/thin thing at the time, but, oof, though I was fine with it? The whole salvation by taking a bite of the doughnut thing, I kinda went, “Ouch.” Way too pat.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    It really tossed me out of the book when it mention Dead Poet’s Society. It made me think that the writer when out at parties, if he talked about his book, everyone said, “O! Like Dead Poet’s Society?” And he was like, “Yeah. Well. Fuck. Like that. But with Catholicism and WARNING! (C)ANAL.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, yeah, the airplanes! I liked that too. Just some really, really vivid scenes throughout. Quite lovely, too, even when describing something horrible.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Lori’s disgusting, fat BFF who was fucking Carl. Ew. What a cunt.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Characters were rich, that’s for sure. If not rich, then perfect in the scheme of things.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, I felt like the Dead Poets mention was giving it the finger. That was fine with me. Never saw that, by the way. Teacher of the Year bullshit makes me mad.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Lori’s friend made me sad, too. I mean, we all remember girls like that, and they were a sad, sorry mess.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Rosie: No, the head of the school! The cartoon neoliberal. He has a title that I can’t remember.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Wences: YES! Really vivid imagery. I saw so much.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Lori’s friend rang true to me, too, in a horrible way.

    And yeah, I didn’t like the anorexia. I felt like she’d just stop participating, or even become repellently fat, rather than anorexic. Imagine the last scene with Ruprecht and Fat Lori. Maybe more interesting?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    But I did like the string theory / M theory stuff, even though it’s the kind of thing I sometimes don’t.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I do like how high science is likened to New Ageism.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    BRB: He was off the hook! What was his name? It was like his head would explode at any second… Costigan. Gregory. That was not his “title”. Walking asshole? Asshole eruptis?

    Graves references – anyone? White Goddess?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Yeah, the symmetry between string theory and pre-Catholic Ireland was neat to me. Way up in space vs. under the surface.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    The string/M stuff was also very true to a clever high school kid’s creative magical use of what he’s learning, that’ll pull into Sillytown because of how fucking enormous kids’ brains get for a few years there.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, right. Totally forgot about robed drug dealer kingpin guy. Virus hangs out with guys like that all day.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I found the string theory / M theory stuff to make the story full. I could see that young, rotund, insecure lad going on and on and the rest of the boys looking on half listening, half not, yet getting all sucked in to it all.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Senor Wences wrote:

    Oh, right. Totally forgot about robed drug dealer kingpin guy. Virus hangs out with guys like that all day.

    Virus IS that guy.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    How about Skippy and his dad? That whole thing had me puzzled for a bit.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    hahahaha Virus hangs out with drug dealing Druids. hahahahaha

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Jesus Christ, Skippy and his parents, that was awful and painful.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, god, I forgot about him even having a dad. Sometimes that whole thing made me very sad. Fathers and sons, I dunno, I got a thing about that. And mine’s good! But, yeah, ow, being a dude can be hard sometimes, and the failures can really fail a person, and his clumsy attempts to connect with poor Skippy, but he’s helpless to do it right, because he is a dude.

    Being a chick is so easy by comparison. Eat a doughnut, and you’re fixed right up.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Wences, BRB:
    The whole Jerome Green – saw a man who was a boy in Africa – oh my God did he recognize me – thing? Hmmmm. Yet there was Skippy and he lusted over him. I couldn’t tell if anything happened or not. It was so vague and suggestive.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I meant more about the whole idea of the conversation and relations as being “the game” . “Dad and I are talking. We are playing the game. If I say THAT, that would be against the rules…” Imagine thinking this way?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    This is why I eat doughnuts all day long.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Wences: Being a chick is easy? Sure, give a blow job to a couple of guys on a roof and break some flower pots and get some pills. Sing a song or two. Throw up a couple of times. Suck someone else’s cock. Cry. THAT WAS EASY.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    That is, being a chick does not appear easy in this book. All female characters are fucked.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    If only Skippy’s mom ate more doughnuts.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I loved the dance scene. LOCK THE DOORS AT 7:45!!!
    I loved the idea of someone taking over the music, and drugs in the punch and nudity and mayhem. I could smell the room.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Pat as it was, I thought it was really sweet of Ruprecht to bring Lori doughnuts. He was frustrating, because he was a frustrating freak, but that made me really like him. He’d missed Skippy’s pain, living in his own freaky head, and Skippy’s death tuned him into the pain of others.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    And sucked more cock.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Aw, yeah, poor Ruprecht. He really tried.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, admit it, Rosie. Being a girl is all sunshine and lollypops. Smooth sailing.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Ha, Vaq, you’re making me chuckle.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    O! My family is watching that Look Around You Maths thing right now.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Wences: I love being a girl. It’s the best.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    This is Rosie dancing around singing for you!

    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjWn-ueeeLw

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    What was the deal with Howard putting his hand in the candle flame?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Girls have all the soft bits. It’s pretty cool.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    That’s me, Vaq! That guy on the phone has a huge boner.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    hahahaha Wences, next time you go down on a lady, shake out some rainbow sprinkles there and have yourself some real fun.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Gives donut hole a whole new meaning.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    There used to be that kids cartoon “Rainbow Sprinkles” that was all candy flavored cunnilingus. Unicorns performing cunnilingus in cloud kingdoms and shit. It was on too early for parents to realize what the hell was going on.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    I thought Howard burning his hand — I just didn’t really think about it. Read it and moved on. I don’t know. I usually think of people doing that as a sort of action where in they are feeling so much interior pain that they use any exterior pain in order to jump out of their pain into that outside one. And this didn’t seem like that. It seemed like punishment. He was the one who was supposed to be harmed in the jump, not the coach, so he was harming himself as a means to say sorry for it not being him. Since what he did by saying no was not be a coward but be smart. It was the coach who was the dumbass and just jumped. But there was no lost promise for Howard as there was for the coach and so it should have been Howard. And if it had been, everyone would’ve said: Idiot! There’s no way he can win. His peers don’t think much of him. So he’s creating a damage, a punishment, an outside scar and pain. I don’t know.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Sorry, I was distracted. But the cookies are made!

    Anyway, I really liked the book, it was extremely gripping and funny and gut-wrenching. Most of the character stuff really worked, which is why the stuff that occasionally didn’t stood out. I wouldn’t want to know more about the Coach if Pere Vert wasn’t so vividly drawn, etc.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I really enjoyed it as well.

    You know I would like to have a book club list of sorts, like a twenty questions sort of thing, but not twenty.

    Favorite scene, favorite character/why, character I would most like to have sex with, character I would like to talk with in a bar at 3:30am, scene I wish I was a fly on the wall for…etc., etc. I dunno. Maybe too much to think about, but sometimes I think those things are good springboards for discussion.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    It might have bothered me about Howard’s lesson with the kids shoe-horning in what is obviously also the author’s hobby-horse about Irish involvement in WWI, but being a person who teaches, the way Howard hyper-identifies and gets all balled-up and ridiculous about teaching the kids these things — yet justified, in his weird way — feels like how those of us who teach get sometimes, not Teacher of the Year-type stuff, but just sharing something you actually think is interesting and wanting the other person to think it’s interesting, or moving, or whatever, back. I like that it came off vaguely pathological rather than Dead Poet’s Society-ish, too, like it’s never not Howard Working Out Some Issues even if it almost accidentally becomes effective pedagogy too.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Like when he takes them on the trip.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    This is dumb, but I thought the wacky font for “Bethani” was unnecessary. It’s already spelled all wacky, it just made the book feel a surface-y at first in a way that didn’t end up being.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Hahahaha, Rosie, I would not have sex with any of these people.

    Sometimes the discussion is great, other times not. Book Fight Club is what it is. We let it take care of itself.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Earlier on, he was completely wrecked in the classroom. The boys were bored to fucking death, and he knew it. Along comes hot ass with the Graves and puts a spark in his ass- did she do that or did his renewed interest in his subject? You can’t ever set someone else on fire unless you yourself are in flames.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I forgot about the WWI thing, but, yeah, to me it doesn’t come off as necessarily just the author’s obsession, but natural to the sort of character Howard is. Especially the way he delves into it to escape as he’s falling apart, and the way the headmaster or whoever attempts to leverage it as control. Plus, hahaha, it was interesting. That helped.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Oh, Vaq, nor would I – just rattling off a bunch of ideas. Teacher thing. Sorry.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, right, that fucking font with Bethani. Yeah, no.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    RC: Yeah, I was thinking of the trip – it’s obviously a bad idea, yet you do feel yourself thinking, why should it be? Why isn’t there something in the museum for them? And they end up getting something out of it. But it’s still a bad idea.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    That headmaster guy was something else, and I loved how they painted his wife as the classic, subservient 50′s housewife. Trudy.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    That Bethani font thing was ridiculous although it made it more musical, melodious if you will – as if you could hear the song when you saw the font. Maybe that was the intention.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    I finally dug the book out. AUTOMATOR! His title was Automator. Heh.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    BRB, you’re the best. Right. AUTOMATOR. Such interesting connotations…

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    That museum trip was hilarious, and even suspenseful, I thought.

    “Paris Trout”, when everybody trashes the dude’s boat. It’s funny, but tragic. Read “Paris Trout” if you haven’t. “Paris Trout” was great.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Wait, no, that was “The Shipping News”. Haha, sorry. Wine.

    The “Paris Trout” bit I’m thinking is when all the reporters throw their shoes out the window of the train, for no good fucking reason except they be smelling theyselves.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/fictionsinmotion/ Vaquero

    Okay, cuties, I have to get going now, got to get back to packing up my house. Thank you for chatting. Have fun without me! xoxoxoxoxoxoxox

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Oh, I just flipped it open and was reminded of Howard’s girlfriend! Who I actually liked, despite how she disappears and becomes kind of a forgotten character by the end. But I liked the parts narrated by her, they felt right somehow, he’s good at making her have American insides without being weird about it or making it a big thing.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    The Automator is so very classically kick-in-the-ballsable.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    She was just his girlfriend? I remembered them married. Yeah, earlier on upstairs I mentioned her a bit, same way.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I liked the video thing with her, smoking cigarettes and all. Hallie. Great read. All in all.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Were they married? She’s worried about getting sponsors for visas, so I figured they weren’t. Just settled in together, in that house they shouldn’t have bought.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    I also liked the following: bicycle riding, on the roof in the neon donut sign lights, pills and pills, the Druid fire, the telescope frisbee girl watchings, the Mario in girls laundry room fiasco, the tin foil Ruprecht energy blow up insanity, Lori’s house for dinner, Carl’s mom walking in on Carl stealing drugs and still not getting it, Carl listening to parents argue while watching porn and picturing Lori, the bar, flashback to the cliff, school hallway ramblings. Great. Lots of it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Good god, what kind of movie will this make? I do shudder to think. The bare bones of the plot are not its strongest point, really. The writing itself kind of is.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    I loved the Lori’s house for dinner sequence!

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    The whole Irish Catholic thing – has anyone seen Boondock Saints?

    The dinner sequence was wonderful. As far as a movie, well, I agree the writing is brilliant, but the story is entertaining, and that seems to be enough. Good characters too.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    “Water Music”! That’s the T. Coraghessan Boyle book with the jungle Oz scene that will stick with me like the school dance scene, till the end of my days.

    Read that, if you haven’t.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    I’m not remembering the dinner sequence AT ALL. But again, been a long time.

    And, oh, right, the stealing drugs from your mom scene. Again, actually suspenseful. Made me feel like I was stealing drugs from my trash mom, if I was trash and she was trash.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Lori’s parents were another pair of cardboard characters for me. Though, also, I dunno: There are cardboard people out there, for sure, who are just like that. Maybe especially of a type for Ireland in its dot com boom days.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/rosie-cheeks/ Rosie Cheeks

    Good night, book fighters. Until next time. Read like the wind or something.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    But my favorite sequence was probably the dance, like Rosie pointed out. It was very grand without feeling like a fake dance in a movie high school or something. I loved the DJ getting so very angry when the hip hop guys started playing rap music. So indignant. People sometimes forget that kids are cling to rules and much as they rebel against them. For every rebel, there’re three junior apparatchiks itching to prosecute him. Indignantly.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    Like Rosie AND Wences pointed out.

    ‘Night kids! I don’t feel like I did this book justice, I’m too out of it. I need some ecstasy-spiked punch.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Hahaha, the DJ. Forgot. That was great.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    ‘Night all. Anybody out there who didn’t read the book should read it, before the definitely gonna be shitty movie version comes out.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/berightback/ berightback

    And yet, he wasn’t just being a tool – he’d been given that night of music as a responsibility, it was his baby, and now it was being hijacked! And no one seems to care! Arrgh! I liked it when the book made you see both sides of those kinds of situations, like to the kid it’s the most important thing in the world and to the adult it’s like What is the Big Deal? and to the other kids it’s like Why are being such a dipstick? Most of the novel was like that, which is why the more cardboardy characters, like Lori’s parents, kind of stuck out when they ended up not getting the extra dimension. He’d taught you to look for it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, but also? Never got around to saying this, but Paul Murray definitely seems to be one of those writers who laid out a great big diagram before he started writing. Sometimes the diagram showed, because he didn’t put enough art stuff on it.

    But that’s fine. Still did a way better job than most out there.

    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD3xbGhtSZQ&feature=related

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Ha.

    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK8lk7EiJ0k

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    Oh, do watch the above. Hilarious. Screen goes blank and there’s the lady on the panel reflected in the screen, in her bathrobe, recording it on her phone.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/senorwences/ Senor Wences

    BRB, yeah, I mean, thankful for the fully realized characters, but such a shame to miss that in the others. Thinking Robertson Davies, where all his people feel whole.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/kausaustralisandsaturn/ Worthless Emo

    Its in my backpack. Arrived yesterday, too late to even pretend I read half of it. Whoops.

    I am here though. Anyone want tea?

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/kausaustralisandsaturn/ Worthless Emo

    Arooooooooooo =5