“A Village Cannot Reorganize Village Life To Suit The Village Idiot”

September 17, 2009 in religion, republicans

If you have 6 minutes and 30 seconds free today, watch this amazing clip of recovered evangelical Christian Frank Schaeffer go off on the radical right wing fundamentalist Christian movement.

Then ask yourself whether we really have anything even remotely close to a “liberal media” in this country, and why you’re almost certainly seeing an argument like this for the first time on an obscure blog.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/nefariousnewt/ NefariousNewt

    Thank you, Frank Schaeffer, for putting what many of us have known for so long, into such vivid context. Thank you, Rachel Maddow, for bringing it to us.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/nefariousnewt/ NefariousNewt

    As a lapsed Catholic, the thing that has truly perplexed and angered me over the decades is how Christianity has spent most of its time perverting the words and teachings of Christ to suit their needs. What really has me peeved, is that the Vatican has never strongly condemned any of these radical, fringe offshoots of Roman Catholicism. While they may not hold the words of the Pontiff as having validity in their belief structure, those of us who followed the word of Christ and God for so long do, and we would expect him to come out and tell these people to stop besmirching the Son of God with their wingnuttery.

    So these people, these hypocrites, these racists and homophobes cloaked in the loosest interpretation of The Bible possible, harangue sensible people with their bile, and remain unchecked. I’ve said it before: this schism threatens to take on the proportions of that which preceded The Civil War, if something is not done now.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/minou/ minou

    I fail to see how the “racist” and “beyond crazy” explanations are mutually exclusive, though. These folks are going crazy about something, and it’s something that didn’t make them as crazy when, say, Bill Clinton was in office. That said, this clip is incredible and I think probably Schaeffer was temporarily putting the racist angle aside to focus on the crazy in isolation, which is fair enough. This needed to be said.

    @Newt: I agree with you emphatically about your last sentence there. It may turn out that this is the jihad we should be scared of.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/nefariousnewt/ NefariousNewt

    @minou: What the Bush Administration neglected to remind everyone after 9/11, that America has been the subject of homegrown terrorists for far longer than foreign ones. We’ve spent so long looking over our shoulder at the world, we’ve failed to notice the religious fanatics in our own neighborhood.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/heneage/ Heneage

    Wow. That was cathartic. Someone was able to succinctly sum up everything I’ve been feeling about the evangelical right in 6 minutes. I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal – so some of their more sensible economic ideas (think Buckley, not Gingrich) I might consider supporting. The fact is though, they’ve gone so batshit insane catering to the “loony toons” I could never in a million years bring myself to vote for anyone that identifies with the Grand Old Party or the millenarians that vote them into office .

    I even feel like a bit crazy saying this, but part of me is actually scared that Obama will become a martyr thanks to this lunatic fringe.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/lawyergay/ lawyergay

    Nefarious: I went to a nominally episcopal boarding school and imbibed a good deal of Christian teaching there, although I was and remain an atheist. But I couldn’t agree with you more about how perverse these kinds of hate-filled radical religious groups are, particularly if you happen to know even a little bit about the teachings of Christ.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/nefariousnewt/ NefariousNewt

    @lawyergay: The contrast between these groups and the actual teachings of Christ cannot be more stark — Christ was big on helping others, no matter who they were or what they believed, because he felt (no doubt), that they would be more receptive to his message if they thought he actually cared. He wasn’t trying to ram his message down people’s throats. And here you have these “Christians,” who have no trouble judging you, withholding charity from those who do not fit their idea of “good Christians,” and making pariahs of whole groups. What gets me most is the hypocrisy — I guess doing unto others as you would have them do unto you means we can crap all over these people, call them names, and refuse to help them in their hour of need.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/chillbearlatrigue/ Chillbear Latrigue

    It’s very gratifying to see that you Rachel Maddow went out and found someone to fan the flames of hysteria on your side of the street in Frank Schaeffer. I will put aside for the time being the validity of poll results that ask a group of people that one can assume were already not in favor of Obama, whether or not he is the Anti-Christ. However, at least be honest with yourselves in admitting that a poll that asks if anyone is the “Anti-Christ” is going to have some skewed results. “Fuck yeah he’s the Anti-Christ. I hate that guy,” is not the same as a belief that Satan has been incarnated in the form of Barack Obama. He hasn’t by the way.

    There are definitely some crazy people in the ranks of the religious right. However, I have not seen compelling evidence that they are running the Republican Party. George Bush was a religious man that would often seek the council of religious advisers and you guys hated it. To be honest, it was a little too much for me as well. However, he was not part of some lunatic religious right fringe that believed that the world was 6000 years old and wanted children to be taught in school that Adam and Eve were the first human beings. It can be argued that his religious fervor has led him to some unsavory positions. For instance, consider his position on gay marriage. On the surface, Bushes faith seemed pretty apparent. However, I would counter that by saying that it was political expediency that was to blame for his popular, but morally reprehensible position. In 2004, the last time that Bush ran, the country rejected gay marriage in places like Oregon despite the state going overwhelmingly for Kerry. As much as I wanted gay marriage to pass it was a losing proposition to back it. This is probably why Obama has taken the cowardly route that he has with it, since he has clearly not been co-opted by the religious right.

    As far as the race issue goes. You’re probably on to something. There are lots of assholes who hate his guts because he’s half African-American. I don’t think that’s why people are opposed to his expansion of government. If you’ll recall during the primaries there was a loud vocal group of people who didn’t want to vote for McCain because he was too liberal. Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh swore that they would support Hillary before supporting McCain. The tea parties have nothing to do with race, although I’m sure that racists show up. Minou, to your point, Clinton was a fiscal conservative. It’s one of the things that I loved about him. He was the balanced budget President. If he weren’t so soft on foreign policy, I would have voted for him in ’96.

    Schaffer makes a statement to the effect that he won’t vote for a Republican Party candidate as long as they continue to pander to the religious right. Fair enough. I hate that too. I will not vote for a Democratic Party candidate as long as they keep acting as though all of their solutions are free of charge, while they print inflatable dollars in the back room press. Yeah, I know Bush did this too, but you the only choice you gave me in 2004 was a guy who actually promised that he would do it more.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/lawyergay/ lawyergay

    Chillbear: It occurred to me as I was watching the segment–particularly the lead-in to the Schaeffer interview–that some people, when posed the question “Do you think Obama is the anti-Christ,” would say “yes” just to fuck with stupid pollsters and their dumb questions. But that’s got to be no more than 1 or 2 percentage points at the most, right?

    My point here is that you have almost certainly never seen an outright takedown of the fundamentalist Christian movement like this on national television EVER. Have you? (If you have, please let me know.)

    The fact of the matter is we’ve got a cohort of downright crazy people calling the shots within one of the two major political parties in this country. And whether George W. Bush actually talked the talk doesn’t really matter, because he walked the crazy Christian walk in so many destructive ways.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/bjonston/ BJonston

    LG: Awesome.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/nefariousnewt/ NefariousNewt

    @ChillbearLatrigue: I admit, given the question, and the fact that these people were from NJ, the results are suspect, but then most polling is suspect, as sample sizes are never large enough to be significant, other than in a statistical sense.

    It’s not the percentage that troubled me — it’s that it was greater than zero! Admittedly, in any sample, you’re going to follow the Bell Curve for distribution, usually, and that means there will always be a wacko in the mix. And sure, people will try to mess with the results just because they can. Factoring all that in, the percentage is still too high for my liking.

    Perhaps the Christian zealots are not running the Republican Party, but the Republican Party has certainly been pandering to them for a while, since just before the great victory of ’94. Christian conservatives gave the party strength (read: money) that they had not had in forever, allowing them to break the Democrats’ stranglehold on Congress. And the fanatics made sure the party knew it. After ’94, a Republican couldn’t blink without the zealots making sure they weren’t going to vote to fund abortions or sex education, and when the religious right made it look so easy, everyone got into the act. The recent death of the Republican Party can be attributed by serving too many masters, trying to keep everyone happy and maintain their grip on power. Now, they are hamstrung by their own weakness, unable to control their own message, and busy playing spoiled brat while the President tries to bring about the reforms that the country is demanding.

    Republicans made their bed of nails and broken glass, now they need to shut up and lie down on it.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/voxpopuli/ VoxPopuli

    This guy is great and I love what he has to say. The only problem is that not all of the teabaggers are crazy fundies. Some of them are just bitter people who aren’t particularly religious – think of that cousin who complains about having to press 1 for English. Yeah, that type. They can’t cut it in a less-racist world, so they look for people to blame for their failures.

    Also, thanks LG for bringing us this clip. I can’t deal with Maddow’s constant mugging and side-mouth talking, so I never watch her show and would have missed this gem.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/lawyergay/ lawyergay

    Vox: Yes. The teabaggers aren’t just astroturf; there are some genuinely pissed-off folks out there. They’re just pissed off for the wrong reasons.

    I know Rachel is an acquired taste. I suppose I tolerate the mugging and all that because she may be the best liberal-minded MSM interviewer out there right now.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/bjonston/ BJonston

    @Chillbear: Please don’t insinuate that Rachel Maddow is the same as Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. She is not. Not even close. The comparison insults our intelligence, both yours and mine.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/chillbearlatrigue/ Chillbear Latrigue

    @LG: Come on, brother. It’s a bogus poll. “Do you think Barack Obama is the Anti-Christ?” If that is baiting I have never seen it. It has about as much meaning as the phone polls during the UFC where you vote to give your “opinion” as to who will win the fight.

    I don’t think that I’ve seen an attack on the religious right on TV. It could be the shows that I’m watching, but no, I haven’t seen it. I completely disagree that the insane cohort to which you refer is running the Republican Party. I just think that the Republicans know that if they piss these people off, the Democrats will be out there waving a cross to bring them over to their side. I’m not saying that it’s the right thing to do, but I believe that’s the motive.

    @NN: The recent “death” – I think it’s more of a touch of the plague – of the Republican Party is due to a lack of job performance. It’s not all that complicated. 40% of the people are going to vote Republican and 40% are going to vote Democrat. The party that grabs more than half of the middle 20% gets the power. It’s hard to win those middle people over when you have climbing unemployment, a lengthy and unpopular war and gas prices shooting up through the stratosphere. Fair or not, Republicans were blamed for all three of these failures. That is what damaged the GOP. Do you know which people are alienated by the Republicans embracing the religious right? You guys, who are firmly entrenched with Democrats. Liberal lefties hate the intermingling of Church and State, but they weren’t exactly going to vote for Republicans anyway. I don’t like it either, but I also don’t hate it enough to cross party lines.

    Vox: I am neither a racist nor a very religious person, but I am a small government, fiscal conservative. Do you know the reason that I’m not a tea-bagger? Honestly? They look like a bunch of douche bags. I mean, come on, guys. If you want me in your stupid club, you need to sell it a little. I live in Florida and you want to do this in the middle of the fucking summer. You at least need to have some cold beer and bikini girls. I also hate rednecks and there seem to be a bunch of them at these things. Now, think about how much more effective this would have been if you had organized Summer Beer Pajama Anti-Tax Carnivale*!

    Sorry, Vox. I started talking to you and then lapsed into chastising my party.

    * Superfluous letter “e” to make the event sound more exotic.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/ cockatoodleloo

    Thanks for posting this LG. Like so many here, I find it nutty and sad how Biblical teachings are perverted by the weak – and this is one of the reasons we non-believers may perceive believers as weak – and used for political gain by those who would corral the fear of the weak-minded. I mean, I just got used to the fact that Obama is a secret Muslim, now the leaflet tells me I need to believe that he’s a super-secret Jew?

    Regarding the discussion of fiscal conservatism I think it is possible that many Americans prefer “fiscally conservative” politicians because many Americans are fiscally-conservative in their private lives. But, unfortunately, at least two aspects of the manifestation of this idealogy in government are never discussed in the prominent media sources: first, the practice of the right, at least since Reagan, of defunding the left, and second, the consequences of funding cuts. Not only am I weary of these not being discussed by our largely irresponsible media, I am also frustrated with every day fiscal conservatives who hold up this frugality as an unimpeachable badge of ethical responsibility.

    Defunding the left by Republicans is a calculated political move, the cutting of programs in a largely indiscriminate manner that would force the next liberal to take the defunded office to spend more money in an effort to restore a sense of basic justice. Is that what really happens when the Republican leaves an office and a Democrat takes over? A mixed bag, surely. But at least it’s an effort in the exercise of compassion. Then when the Democrat runs for reelection, the Republican can yell from the rafters how “irresponsible” the Democrat was. Because a forced hand is always irresponsible.

    Many conservatives scream that liberals want handouts and free rides, but all the average liberal wants is a sense of fair play. Consider this: of all the “first world” countries in the world, the United States has the lowest economic mobility. Born poor in the U.S, stay poor in the U.S. The bootstraps are broken, and what we “elite” liberals like myself want is to simply give the guy a new pair of fucking laces. Conservatives just don’t seem to get that. Take what happens when an actual fiscal conservative gets into office: that conservative darling of Mayberry Bobby Jindal, who took a fiscal axe to the healthcare system in his own state. What happened? People died. Before they should have.

    Lastly, most “fiscal conservatives” are not fiscally conservative when they get into office. Actual fiscal conservatism is largely a ruse used to win elections, and, even when it is employed, it is never judicious, it is never with a consideration of the potential harm it does. Show me a fiscal conservative who improves the efficiency of government without leaving people behind, and I would support them. So far, no sale.

    And Rachel Maddow, as much as I find her grating at times, is no lying alarmist like Beck or O’Reilly. Maddow or Olberman or the Young Turks or Morning Sedition NEVER suggested we put a stake through Bush’s heart.

    One of the more delicious ironies in all this: so many conservatives have disdain for the overwhelming scientific body of knowledge supporting evolution, but there is an element of social Darwinism in every policy they support.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/ BookishLookish

    This smells funny. Thirty-five percent of NJ Conservatives? There might be twelve thousand far-right-leaning (crazee-ass) conservatives in the whole states, so 35 percent amounts to a hill of bupkes. NJ is one of the most liberals states in the country, followed California before any other state in same-sex union legislation. We have horrible debt but that’s mainly (not only) because we are always building new schools, putting in new roads and above all, opening our arms to immigrants legal and non. Our Head Start programs’ initiatives are aimed at universal access and where Maine spends $1,686 per kid, New Jersey spends $10,989 per kid.

    And don’t piss us off, we will cut a crazee-ass pollster.

  • http://wordsmoker.com kneetoe

    BL: Arming illegal immigrants, are you? For shame!!!!!

    Yes, this poll has stupid written all over it

  • http://wordsmoker.com/ BookishLookish

    @CL: “Carnivale” just made me really miss this show: http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/ (sigh/sob)

    @Knee: Not arming, embracing. To clasp in the arms; hug; cherish; love. Are you feeling me?

  • http://wordsmoker.com kneetoe

    @Chill: The religious right is a huge player in the Republican party and, under the current circumstances, their power is at the high end of the spectrum. A strong Obama means running against him is a high risk proposition with the possibility of a big return. So only the extremists contemplate it (Palin=best example here). The road to victory is simple: win the primary and hope Obama fails and so you have a shot. Winning the primary means appealing exclusively to the base, and the religious right is a big part of the base. So, the longer the shot at upsetting Obama, the more base-based (so to speak) the opposition, and the more power for the religious right. If, on the other hand, Obama weakens, then that opens the door for centrists (if there are any; the Santorum announcement seems interesting here ) and other opportunists, and the calculations shift to the middle (although, of course, there’s still the problem of getting through the primaries).

    That’s a partial response to article one (a)(1)(4) of your post, but I’ve run out of wine and energy to pursue the rest right now. Look forward to future opportunities to discuss these matters.

  • http://wordsmoker.com kneetoe

    @BL: OH god, your weapons of mass seduction.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/voxpopuli/ VoxPopuli

    @CL: I know – I didn’t take you for a teabagger. Um, I mean the political kind. I’m aware that most conservatives are not of the tea party variety and I thought we were talking specifically about the smaller batshit crazy segment of the Republican Party. Also, there’s no way those teabaggers will allow you to add that “e” because that will make it look foreign. USA! USA!

    And yes, the poll is bullshit, and I think Maddow thinks so too, even if she is using it as a talking point.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/minou/ minou

    @Bookish: Oy, my state and its spending. So yeah, Head Start is just one of the things my state is NOT spending any money on. Nobody — and I mean NOBODY — up here has quite figured out what they ARE spending it on yet.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/mama-penguino-2-2-2/ Mama Penguino

    “@CL: I know – I didn’t take you for a teabagger. Um, I mean the political kind.”

    This just made me burst out laughing. Thanks, kids!

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/mediahohoho/ mediahohoho

    Here’s something to think about. Just as the “Christian” “Right” has impacted the Republican Party, dumbing it down and saddling its candidates with a ridiculously hypocritical “values” agenda, the kind of access to power that it enjoys, both within the party and, scarily enough, during the 8 years of Cheney/Rove, has corrupted and defiled evangelical Christianity.

    This is one of those changes I noticed so acutely when I came back to the country in 2004 after having been gone a few years. Taking control of the Republican Party, because of its grass-roots marketing organization (local churches) and high level lever pulling (weekly conference calls between George Bush and Focus on the Family’s James Dobson and Ted Haggard) infected the evangelicals with agendas–preemptive war, anti-Latin-American-immigration, anti-poors, Darwinian capitalism at the expense of its own constituents–that are absolutely antithetical to all but the most extreme bible thumpers as recently as 40 years ago.

    The co-opting of these two elements of the GOP, the radical chauvinistic nativist hawks who believe we should “bitch slap” any country that looks as as sideways with a spare nuke or two (the traditional nuts being run by the bankers and such who really run the party) and the religious zealots who yearn for persecution so much they don’t care who they have to persecute to get it, have produced a highly effective but ultimately doomed apparatus that is easy to mobilize and hard to control.

    What’s ultimately frustrating for the ground level, (Kenyan Muslim Communist) Barack is the AC Godbotherers crowding the pews each Sunday is that they will never ever get the prize they seek, which is an end of legalized abortion in the US. No one in a position of authority in the Republican Party or the various Christian ACORNs dotting the landscape wants for this jackpot of limitless fundraising and righteous indignation to end. No one.

    So they take out their rage by killing abortion doctors, screaming down discussion at Town Hall Meetings, through their daily communions of hatred with Rush, Beck, Sean, Huck and BillO (and hundreds of local extremists much worse) and, ultimately, through events like the Oklahoma City bombings and, their ultimate fantasy, the future assassination of our present President, which they prepare the way for by describing him as the Beast (so much easier to put down a dog than attack the office) a lot more often than you really want to contemplate.

    Surprised a third of New Jersey conservatives believe Obama is Mr. Triple 6? Don’t be. And I say that not because I have any special animus toward the garden state. I don’t, except for the annoying fucking tailgating. It’s just that if someone is an evangelical these days it’s almost axiomatic that they are conservative, and 35% is a low estimate among the former for belief that Barack is Satan’s offspring. And if it’s like that in a liberal Democratic alternating with moderate Republican state like New Jersey, you really don’t want to see the results of the poll in the South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arizona, Utah or Idaho.

    It’s funny. I remember when my Baptist minister father first spell under the spell of Frank’s dad. Even then, during the mid-70s most evangelicals would be perplexed and exasperated by discussions of The Revelation or End Times or Anti-Christ. Now, they’ve totally rolled over to the lunatic fringe and adopted that language into their opposition to a President who is a professing Christian. That their ideas have come to define a large part of the national political discussion is an indication of how dangerous they are, not just to the Republican party, but to the Republic.

  • http://wordsmoker.com/help/members-3/samuraipandapoetry/ samuraipandapoetry

    I thought Willem Defoe was the anti-christ. Obama’s not in the new von Trier film, is he? If so, I understand the confusion.